Gropper Box, Slags & Something Else

[Steph]

Here's a link to a Gropper box at a recent Morphy auction. Box

It's a Gropper New York box (as opposed to Ottawa).

Morphy's description says it contains a row of American Agates. Curious about your thoughts about it all, but perhaps starting with whether you agree on the American Agate call.

Morphy's description:

Box Set of No. 0 National Onyx Toy Marbles.

Description From M. Grouper & Son Inc. in New York, New York. Grouper was the distributor for Christensen Agate. This box set contains 90 Christensen Agate slags and ten Christensen American Agates.

Condition Marbles (9.2) Box (Excellent). Size Marble: 5/8" Dia.

Photos from the auction:

(click to enlarge)

Thanks.

[ann]

If the slags were Christensen, I'd think at least one would be seam-side up. Not seeing any. I'd say odds against the slags being correctly identified . . . don't know nuttin about no 'merican agates.

[lstmmrbls]

Everything looks just like they should be if CACs to me. Gob fed like their swirls although the Am. Ag. may be handgathered. Hard to tell as they usually have no real 9 or seam anyway. Not all CACs slags are the 2 seam vatiety or handgathered IMO. I have seen many boxes of CAC slags with similar marbles. Even peewees.

[hdesousa]

Everything looks just like they should be if CACs to me.

Galen, are CAC slags, at times, seamless?

Hansel

[lstmmrbls]

I sure believe so. And if I remember correctly you have some boxes of those type slags.

[hdesousa]

I sure believe so. And if I remember correctly you have some boxes of those type slags.

OK, I'll look and report back.

Hansel

[lstmmrbls]

There was no seam on this one

And this is a type often found in the #4 boxes. again no seam

[ann]

Haven't seen boxes and boxes of CAC slags, but for the time being, I'm stickin' with the one-or-two seam theory. For machine mades. I'd like to see lots of evidence of CAC producing machine-made slags with no seams, especially in any numbers. Waitin' for Hansel.

If there are machine-made CAC slags with no seams, then unless they're found in original packaging I don't imagine they could be told from Akro. Unless the color was absolutely one that only Christensen produced. In which case nearly any box could be backfilled with Akro and no one would be the wiser.

[lstmmrbls]

I completely agree with your last statement and you may be able to include Peltier in that line. I have even seen original boxes of American Agates including seamed and non seamed types. See any seams on these?

CAC boxes of sililar slags(like the first box posted) can be seen in Grist 4th Ed. 138,139,141 and AMM 71,72

[jeeperman]

Nope...sure don't and I have some with no seam as well. I notice the one odd colored one in the last pic...top of the pic left of center. I also have this color variation. they on their own look exactly as they should but amongst the rest they look different, were they made at a different period or were they a drift from the norm?

[Steph]

It has been suggested to me that there were some Peltiers which looked like those red and white ones (which look a little mossy to me).

Can anyone confirm? And if so do you know what they were called?

[lstmmrbls]

I think that is an assumption because they have been found in Gropper boxes. If I remember correctly they have been mislabeled in a couple of auctions.

[Ric]

. . . starting with whether you agree on the American Agate call.

FWIW, they look like American Agates to me. Although, I do find it interesting how much variation there is in those described as such. I've seen handgatherd, swirled, seamed, and a pretty wide range of colors/hues and base glasses called American Agates. Was there really that much variation in what CAC called AAs? It makes me wonder if it was more of a brand name to CAC, rather than a specific type of marble.

[winnie]

Ric,Yours look like a swirled and seamed one.

This one hand-gathered or seamed?

winnie

[Ric]

I don't know about yours, Winnie. But based on some CACs I've seen, I think it's possible to be both . . . handgathered and "seamed".

[lstmmrbls]

And I believe a lot that look like swirls with no seam are actually handgathered. I go nuts very quickly trying to figure out how the different types of CACs were made. Heck even the 2 seamers make no sense.

Not my pic

[Kokoken]

In my box of #1 AA's, all but seven have visible seams. Colors are all over the place. Base glass is either bright white or translucent white. From bright red to tan to reddish brow.

Too many slags to count right now.

[winnie]

And I believe a lot that look like swirls with no seam are actually handgathered. I go nuts very quickly trying to figure out how the different types of CACs were made. Heck even the 2 seamers make no sense.

Not my pic

If A.agates that look like swirls with no seams should be hand-gathered,than Akro slags with no hand-gathered traits could be hand-gathered too,or am I going nuts LOL

winnie

[Ric]

. . . or am I going nuts LOL

If you are, Winnie, you won't be going alone. lol

[zaboo]

There was no seam on this one

And this is a type often found in the #4 boxes. again no seam

this slag is to DIE for! and it is still seamless! lol (and mine)

~Ernie

[Kokoken]

Just a close up of AA's. I like the translucent ones best.

[lstmmrbls]

Bottom row 2nd from left, 2 seam?

[Kokoken]

No, it has just one seam. The bottom row, right end has two, though.

[lstmmrbls]

The 2 seamers are my favorite(and the hardest to find).

[machinemades]

Galen, bring some trade material to Dec 4 swap meet. I'll have few sweet examples with cutlines.

Sami