Do It Yourself Marble Calendar

[hdesousa]

If it were mine it would be my second favorite behind this one

Galen,

What are all those dug Akros doing in that nice CAC box?

[lstmmrbls]

A box full of those would be unbelievable!! These are just plain old dull pastel very lightly striped opaques.

[hdesousa]

Here are two examples of beat up boxes that probably still have their factory contents.

Eddie Schubert purchased this from a "little old lady" at a Kansas City show in 1991 or 1992. She knew little about the actual marbles, having had them given to her in childhood and stored in the attic for many years. It was Eddie's second show, and all he knew was that they were corkscrews but not oxbloods, which were the preferred collectable Akros at that time.

Apparently these marbles are very difficult to find in the wild.

This box surfaced on eBay some 10 years ago. I thought it was filled with American Agates, since Gropper also sold CA marbles. But less than 3 years ago, it was used by the Peltier gurus to positively identify a prima agate. Before that, no one knew what a prima agate really looked like.

[winnie]

Hansel,if you have them both in your hand,the Peltier prima and the American agate,they are indistinquishable from each other?

The Peltier prima's they are handgathered?

[lstmmrbls]

I had 60+ American Agates and Primas all together in Canton. The Pelt Guru and I really had a hard time deciding which were which as he wanted Primas. And I am pretty positive that we made many mistakes in our decisions.

American Agates

[hdesousa]

Winnie, Galen,

Outliers not withstanding, the two types can easily be distinguished by their base color:

Taken under a cloudy sky, American Agates on the left, Primas on the right:

The very interesting (and distinguishing) thing about American Agates is that under fluorescent light, their bright red appears beefy red.

Taken with automatic white balance under compact fluorescent light:

I see some hand gathering and cut lines on the American Agates. No cut lines on the Primas, but I'm not real good at deciphering that.

Comments??

[BuckEye]

First off, this is a great thread and is very helpful. The American agates usually are more opaque and have some sort of HG evidence. The primas look to be a more pinkish red and almost look to be on a transluscent moonie type base, are you seeing that Hansel? I have one of those primas that appear to be handgathered as well. Great comparison pics Btw Hansel.

[lstmmrbls]

I have 5 2 seam American Agates and have alway thought the most translucent transparent bases were American Agates and the primas had the more solid looking base. Guess I need to switch up. That looks like a latter box of American Agates, Norm Brown had one with all 1 and 2 seamers which looked similar to those But the earlier boxes of Handgathered types I have seen looked more like the ones in the earlier posted box. Much more like the Primas. Going by your boxes I only had a few American Agates. I will take a pic of whats left. OOOps, as I was putting them back I noticed a couple that do not belong.

[hdesousa]

I think you're right about the earlier American Agates being hand gathered.

Here are a couple more boxes. They both have some hand gathered marbles it seems.

Wonder if it's possible to hand gather more than one marble at a time in a big blob of glass, in which case the second and following marbles from that gather would have two cut-offs and no "nine".

[hdesousa]

And just to really complicate things, especially for those who thought Akro was left out of it, look at these. The marbles are all hand gathered and almost all have what Bob Block calls a "pinched pontil".

from http://www.marblecollecting.com/marble-reference/online-marble-id-guide/transitions/

Pinch Pontil Transitionals exhibit a short straight raised line on the bottom pole. Usually, the top pole has a “9” type configuration. The cut-off line on a Pinch Pontil is much straighter and usually much shorter than that seen on the Crease Pontils discussed below. The crease on Crease Pontils usually are about 1/5th to 1/4 the circumference of the marble. The pontil on a Pinch Pontil are usually less than 1/10th the circumference of the marble. There is still discussion amongst collectors over the age and origin of these marbles. It was generally believed that Pinch Pontil Transitionals are American made, probably early Christensen Agate Company. However, recent research has indicated that the marbles were made in Canada. The pontil is the remnant of a mechanized shearing process, rather than a hand-cut process.

I'm pretty sure that that Akro Carnelians box originally contained those marbles. They were bought here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Vintage-Carnelians-Lot-of-25-Akro-Agate-Marbles-w-Original-No-1-Box-/380738420616

The sellers had no knowledge of marbles. They also sold this at the same time, and if they were into "corrupting" marble boxes, they would have also "fixed" this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Vintage-Moonies-Lot-of-24-Akro-Agate-Moonie-Marbles-w-Original-Box-/360757602616

[winnie]

Those red/white marbles are more complicated than i thought they were.

If the last box,the Akro carnelians are American made,than my transitionals with small short straight cut off's,of which i thought were German made, appear to be American made.Only thing is i find them here in other colors aswell.

The different cut offs might not mean what we thought until now though.....

[hdesousa]

Winnie, the US probably stopped importing glass marbles from Germany when we could make our own glass marbles, but no reason the Germans could not have made their own.

Here is another unlabelled box I bought at a marble show years ago.

It has the same hand gathered marbles you once pictured, with the same "pinch pontil".

There is a tiny remnant of a label:

And a price tag from the Dow Drug Company, Cincinnati, on the bottom:

Here is a pic of the interior of the drug store. Anyone see marbles for sale?

[lstmmrbls]

Everything in my gut says that Akro box is backfilled. I do believe a lot of the different hand gathered types are 20s 30s German marbles. I have seen many 30s catalogs that listed imported marbles. Individual stores probably had a lot to do with what was put in many boxes? I have seen several smaller count boxes with individual marble prices on them.. If the marbles were sold piecemeal It seems to me once the boxes were empty the store owners quite possibly put whatever was around in them?? This may be one explanation as to why one companies marbles can be found in other companies boxes and appear near original. The kid or parent with money bought a whole box that had just been refilled by the store owner. Just one of my deep thoughts(LOL)

[hdesousa]

<snip> If the marbles were sold piecemeal It seems to me once the boxes were empty the store owners quite possibly put whatever was around in them?? This may be one explanation as to why one companies marbles can be found in other companies boxes and appear near original. The kid or parent with money bought a whole box that had just been refilled by the store owner. Just one of my deep thoughts(LOL)

That's the best explanation I've heard to explain a complete set of anomalous marbles in a branded box. But that still doesn't explain why we don't see these marbles in their own shipping containers. Just about every mass produced imported German marble has been advertised in catalogs, from chinas to benningtons to swirls to agates, etc. as well as having been found in their original shipping boxes. Not so these red/white marbles with a "pinched pontil".

[winnie]

That's the best explanation I've heard to explain a complete set of anomalous marbles in a branded box. But that still doesn't explain why we don't see these marbles in their own shipping containers. Just about every mass produced imported German marble has been advertised in catalogs, from chinas to benningtons to swirls to agates, etc. as well as having been found in their original shipping boxes. Not so these red/white marbles with a "pinched pontil".

I agree,and it doesn't explain why i don't find the red/white marbles with a "pinched pontil"in Germany.

All the ones i own are found here in Holland and in England,they have all kind of cut off's,some have a smooth surface,others have a short straight cut off ,or a long straight cut off,or a spidery cut off,i have a few with a "pin pontil".like the point of a pencil.

[MarbleDawg86]

[Steph]

Beautiful!

Love the glow.

[lstmmrbls]

Look at some of the descriptions of the imported marbles. Carnelians onyx etc. probably bennington types but?

http://www.oldwoodtoys.com/images/Butler%20Bros.%201905%20%28160%29.jpg

[MarbleDawg86]

Look at some of the descriptions of the imported marbles. Carnelians onyx etc. probably bennington types but?

http://www.oldwoodtoys.com/images/Butler%20Bros.%201905%20%28160%29.jpg

Really cool! Know anywhere I can still get them at that price?? Lol

[ann]

I think there's further confusion now that there are several pontil definitions . . . like the short straight line being called a pinch pontil by one person (as above) and a line pontil by another -- who also calls the messy, spidery "Japanese" cutoff a pinch pontil. Have to admit the latter usages sound more reasonable to me. So I try not to call them anything unless I'm talking to myself.

[hdesousa]

[Steph]

neato, neato, neato!

[winnie]

Some sparkling wirepull's

This pic- is taken outside with sunlight.

this one is taken inside with natural light.

[Steph]

So pretty. The sunshiney one is refreshing.

[winnie]

Hi Steph,we had no winter,no snow no frost,really nice weather and the spring feels almost like summer,it's incredible.