Steph

Good info. Thanks Galen!

mmmmmmm sausage ....

One thing which has stopped me from presenting the info I have found about the use of the oxblood name in the 1800's is that most of it is interlaced in fairly technical material. People's eyes would glaze over. (pun acknowledged if not intended) But there really is a lot of material on copper-based oxblood from the 19th and early 20th century. If you are interested, a lot can be found on Google. Be open for variations in spelling, and for versions of the name as given in other languages. Here's a cool passage from a 1918 article: The way I read it in many places, oxblood is a color AND it has a special and long known association with glazes obtained by the use of copper.

It's not what I would label oxblood. :-) But you knew that, right? Were you heading some direction with this? (I hope that didn't sound antagonistic. Not meant that way. Pardon me for getting turned around. :-)

Oxblood incident. haha. You're a cute one. Are the red ribbons transparent/translucent on those?

Re: #3. I will NOT say "true oxblood" again - unless I'm talking about the blood of an ox! :-)

Perfect wave! wow, the geometry of the glass makes the water look so real and splashy.

Gorgeous examples, Alan! Most excellent.

You talking to me?

Yeah, that one's taken. was just thinkin' along those lines. Obviously, it would take more than me coming up with the name. Just thinkin . . . . Oh Mike, please let me off the hook on the turquoise <--> ox thingy. It just happened so much more in turquoise than in other colors (iiuc) but not enough to seem intentional (to me). Oh my head. I'm happy with what all I said over at LOM. If it wasn't compelling enough, I guess that's that. Some distance from the subject would be good for me now.

Interesting thoughts, Pop. As you know, I shot my wad on that one at LOM in the last coupla days. The alternative would surprise me but obviously I don't know. Now I'm trying to think of a good name for Akro's and MFC's oxblood. Any suggestions? I'm toying with something like Think it could catch on?

I backed off calling Akro's oxblood "true Oxblood". Now I think "traditional" is a better word. I said that I do not know when it came to be tagged with the name oxblood. I don't know how old the "tradition" is. Yet, I think that is a fair word for it. I stand by MFC and Akro's version being a special version of glass with the oxblood color, worthy of its own name. Oxblood is a color. But MFC's American Cornelian glass is a special version of glass with that color.

I currently own a number of books which I never put into my bibliography. Yes, it is. Or at least it was. Hmmmm, is that a trick reference? "glass world"? You might be able to make yourself correct by specially defining that term. I simply know that oxblood has long been used to describe a copper-based glass formula.

It's more than the color. It's a certain look that comes with the opaqueness of the copper version. There isn't that much marble literature. Marbles were just toys. Not big enterprise. I have found documents from throughout the 1800's which mention copper-based oxblood but not in connection with marbles. That's where I got the idea that for glazes the ideal version of oxblood was probably NOT opaque. There is a special glass in MFC's American Cornelian marbles. Somehow the tradition developed within the marble world to call it oxblood. I don't know who started it or when. I totally appreciate the fact that this is a specialized use of the term oxblood. But it's pretty special glass. If we wanna tweak the word oxblood to allow any glass of oxblood color under the umbrella, then a new word or phrase will be found to describe American Cornelian glass. It's just that special. It stands apart. OMG, I'm arguing with Lou! eeeek! (actually, this is fun. ROFL. Thanks for playing with me Lou!)

I don't think it can only be made from the formula. I think the copper-based oxblood which Akro and MFC used can come about under the right conditions even without a formula. I think it happened in Pelts and Marble Kings even. I am however trying to help hold the line that "true oxblood" for most marble collectors is the opaque, copper-based version. Perhaps "traditional" would be a better word to use.

Saving at least one pic from the auction, in case anyone wants to follow the discussion after the link is expired:

Beautiful story, Snyd. How wonderful.

There are some "oxblood-like" colors which can be called "oxblood" without too many people sneering, as long as you make sure you say something like "Vitro oxblood", stressing the extra adjective to make it be known that you are not claiming "true oxblood". Some people will still sneer! lol. But many will let it go. Another example is "horsehair oxbloods". Some might be "true oxblood". But many are not. Many are sorta plain brown. Yet it has generally seemed okay to call them oxblood. At this time, I do not believe that any machine-made marble company founded after Akro made oxblood from recipe. I think there is "true oxblood" in some Alleys and in some other marbles, but I lean toward it being an accidental chemical occurrence made possible by copper in the glass formula - for example, the copper used to make turquoise glass.

There are also antique German marbles with true oxblood. It should be noted that this interpretation of "true oxblood" is pretty specific to marble collectors. Oxblood as a ceramics glaze is different if I understand correctly. Not necessarily opaque. If I understand correctly. And oxblood is used as a color description in other completely non-glass-related areas, so obviously it would have a different meaning there.

MFC and Akro made true oxblood on purpose from recipe. Akro obtained the formula illegitimately from MFC. I'm hearing the possibility discussed that Alley made it on purpose also. I don't know about that. I think it might have appeared accidentally in other marbles, when the right chemical and heat conditions occurred. But of course most of what is called oxblood on eBay ain't. By true oxblood, I refer to the oxblood discussed at Brian Graham's site here: http://www.canalfultonglassworks.com/melting_oxblood_glass.htm (oh, and of course, you are showing true ox in your photo) Jabo in the past few years has made oxblood with the help of aventurine, which is chemically related to oxblood, as discussed on Brian's site.

Nice. Love your enthusiasm. Thanks for sharing the beauty.

Jim Davis is what I'm hearing also. Well, there was another vote for Frank Jarr, but it was quickly taken back. lol Jim Davis, final answer.

bump

thanks. glad it wasn't just me.