VTAndrea Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Sure wish the forum would remember my password. Mon, my Thelma marble was one of the less pricey ones that she put on ebay. I remember being shocked that I won the bid. As I recall, most were more colorful and went for several hundred dollars. If I could enlarge the images, I'd post them again. I think the image size the forum accepts is around 30 KB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTAndrea Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Bill Tow's pictures usually fill the screen. I wonder if he'll be able to find a way around the image size restriction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poplarhead Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 I am amazed by all the stories that have developed over the years in these posts. I told this in past and was attacked by people defending these marbles but I am going to tell it simply, I don't believe these marbles were ever made at the CA plant. In 2002 at the Indiana show ( I keep records of every marbles purchase I make so I know it was 2002) I saw batches of 100+ guineas and large amounts of minty CAS just bought by Les Jones in his room and was offered a box of 22 perfect mint CAs at the Indiana show by another dealer who got them from Les - no flaws which was not plausible to me and this dealer (who still sells at shows and is liked by many on board so I will hold back his name) said he was suspicious of them and was not sure they were old as he tried to sell them to me (for a ridiculous $100 marble)-it was full of submarines and wild striped opaques . The fellow selling called Les in advance, went to Les's room where Les made a large purchase and then resold quickly to other dealers. The old time collectors who saw marbles for many years before these showed up were highly suspicious of them but sellers like Les did not care as they had willing buyers waiting to get them. My opinion has not changed over the years - if the stories circulating originally of how they were found were true then similar cullet and damaged marbles would have also been around - they are not. If you like them, enjoy them and like themn as you do any other marble. Just don't ever try to sell me any. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 I've tried not to ass u me anything and and would like to weigh the evidence. Since the first doubt was cast, I started questioning this hobby. Here you had "gods" of the marble community being called fibbers and "in it for the money"! What's going on? I bought 200 +, mint + Cac's and only one with a healthy chip. They are real! Smitty told me a story about a can full of mint guineas from one source that HD bought...are they real? I think so! Just because someone is liked here and holding back his name is part of the problem. If he did it...he owns it and won't be the first to sell marbles that are represented with doubt. Let him explain why or how. I don't want to devalue anyones mibs because someone whispered or closed a door on me. Just want as much info to make an educated decision or a smoking gun. mon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Sure wish the forum would remember my password. Mon, my Thelma marble was one of the less pricey ones that she put on ebay. I remember being shocked that I won the bid. As I recall, most were more colorful and went for several hundred dollars. If I could enlarge the images, I'd post them again. I think the image size the forum accepts is around 30 KB? I thought the image size the board accepted was over 400 KB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTAndrea Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 OMG, I didn't have to sign in this time. Wonder how that happened? Steph, thanks for the information. I'm going to try again with the same marble if that's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honeybern Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Without the tiniest shred of documented evidence, I am telling you, these are genuine. mike b. I love it!!! All the proof I need! I've about 10 of these - my newest and new favorite one arriving today - a nice variety. The new one wasn't offered by Alan so got it for under $200. I was thrilled having placed a high bid early on for about $300 All the serious CAC collectors I know (3 or 4) are convinced and willing to pay way more than me, at this point. Under big big magnification, the structure of the exotic is indistinguishable from any other, universally-accepted-to-be-genuine CAC. I think the labor involved in faking one would be so great, any marble maker would be better off to make what he usually makes which may sell for less but wouldn't have to pass a barrage of scrutiny/sweat the pressure of having to pass off the "fake" once finished. I'm much more concerned over guinea purchases than these. And no matter what, I think people will continue to trade in these and prices will go up if for no other reason than sufficient numbers of collectors are interested enough to keep pressure on demand. Maybe they only do want to believe it but that's been working for Jesus and several others for thousands of years, in some cases. After all, the Emperor's new clothes were real enough for some time and you can actually see and hold these marbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honeybern Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 LOL. I traded a motorcycle to Harold Sugarman back in the early 1990s for a pair of Golden Rebels. Wasn't a Harley though. :-) Now THAT'S a relevant analogy if ever I heard one! Did you profit on the trade right away? Did you have to hold on to them for a while? Or do you still have them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeyecollector Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Very nice thread on probable CAC “2 seam slags”, “exotics”, “layered sand” or whatever you call them. Always good to see the embers stirred once in a while. One event that has not been mentioned is the hand full of marbles that came from gb in Lauscha several years ago. They resemble exotics in seam construction and patterns but the color palate is slightly different. They were quickly snapped up by American collectors and some were pictured in a recent book as CAC. Alan has offered them with a cautionary note. So what about those German exotics ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTAndrea Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Does GB still sell on ebay? I've lost his seller ID. He had some nice handmades, I guess mostly dug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed Racer Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Does GB still sell on ebay? I've lost his seller ID. He had some nice handmades, I guess mostly dug. Hey VT, what gives? Handmades? Dug? Seller ID's? GB? Please enlighten me. Is this all mysteriously tied into the original Exotic's question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 The German marbles have now been identified and recognized as German marbles. many were originally thought to be CACs. They have nothing to do with the Exotics, Here are a few German marbles that resemble CACs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed Racer Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Good memory.......he was all the talk back then! Who got stuck with that large red based guinea? VT, I've been looking at your marble over and over......it's an odd looker with ....like a two seam snotty cyclone/glob striped transparent w/burnt looking edges, in a pretty way. Was this typical of the early Thelma/Art's mibs sold? Would like to see more examples! I wish the experts would comment on it cause as you can tell, I'm not one! mon Speed racer, please tell more. I dunno, the more I look at them the more they are looking good to me and that is just from a picture. After much thought about the parties who felt uncomfortable buying, I think the prices were out of their reach, or just more than they were willing to pay at the time. Better to say they felt uncomfortable about them than to admit they were too cheap or too broke to go after them. As far as the Mexico license plates, that is another story that likely will not help much except to add another couple's name to the list of original sellers. They should come forward themselves. If not I will give up the names soon. Not that it will matter, since it is pretty obvious that they look too good not to be factory made CAC's. You might have a worker at CAC now retired and or deceased and he and/or the family who do not want it known publicly that workers with otherwise unblemished reputations were taking the best of the best on a daily basis home with them from the runs. It might just be as simple as that. It would also explain the mostly mint condition examples as well as the hush hush surrounding the 'amazing discovery' before they went to market. Does anyone have a complete CAC employee name list? Could start there. Not sure what would be discovered from busting one open. The surface is the best as far as discovery and testing. The question should be are they re-melted CAC cullet or not. They kinda look like they might be with the half swirl half Guinea and half etc in some of them. They are obviously machine made but by which machine and by whom and when. Is there an original CAC machine floating around out there somewhere in someone's basement? I wouldn't bet on it. An original CAC petty-thief/employee makes more sense than anything I've heard so far. That makes them real but with too many strings attached. Unless someone can prove it was ok with the CAC owners at the time for anyone to just take a mib w/o paying for it, then it would explain the secrecy today. Someone's hand is gonna get caught in this cookie jar soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanB Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Hey, Speedracer. That's a bit harsh isn't it? Are you a self-appointed posting cop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 What did Roger say which was harsh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanB Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 What did Roger say which was harsh? Post #111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTAndrea Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I think the seller I'm asking about was Gerhardt Baz. His ebay seller ID was something like gbantiks. I jumped on a couple of his marbles shortly after he started selling on ebay. So.......does anyone know if he's still selling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed Racer Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 How was I to know that it was totally off-topic? I've read so many scenarios and taken in so many characters in this thread that I had to ask. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvrons Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 If the exotics were machine made,the machine would make them round but had nothing to do with the color striping or pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honeybern Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Here is what I find odd about these marbles. I look at all new ebay marble auctions "almost" everyday. On average there are lets say 200 new auctions for marbles everyday. So even if I only checked 300 out of the 365 days of the year. Doing the maths I get 200 x 300= 60,000 auctions looked at over the course of a year. Take that a bit further and times that by the 10 years I have been doing this and you come up with 600,000 or so auctions looked at over that time. Why have I never seen one of these marbles mixed into some old group in all that time???..." . Because the sellers that salt a few WV Swirls and white based Corks into their, otherwise, totally worthless lots of Peltier rainbos and baseballs, un-noteworthy catseyes new All Reds and a few Vacors don't need to invest in an exotic to sucker buyers into bidding up their listings. And whats all this about this dig in 2000 as the Genesis of exotics? They're just striped opaques, striped transparents and submarines (maybe guineas, too). Where's the mystery or controversy? In Baumann's 3rd ed: published 09/01/1999, Baumann acknowledges Brian Estepp: for loaning the marbles pictured in the color plate section of that fine tome (I couldn't post the second page due to the 500K max/post).: several of which are the same, exact, CAC's I've seen and bid on(and won a few) on eBay, consistently offered at a rate of one to three, or so, a week there. Marblealan sells them on consignment pretty regularly since May that I know of - usually one or two each week but I haven't seen him use "exotic" in his listings descriptions and why would he? They seem to sell fine without the controversial moniker "I pity the foo' what tries to tell Mr Estepp he been buyins fakeries!!" - Mr T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Nice to see some of the stuff that gets ignored by the naysayers Honeybern. And I believe if you count the gob feeder and shearing mechanism as part of the machinery it can actually have a whole lot to do with the pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I love it!!! All the proof I need! He thinks the civil war marbles are real. All the serious CAC collectors I know (3 or 4) are convinced and willing to pay way more than me, at this point. Is it 3 or 4? Under big big magnification, the structure of the exotic is indistinguishable from any other, universally-accepted-to-be-genuine CAC. WHAT? I think the labor involved in faking one would be so great, any marble maker would be better off to make what he usually makes which may sell for less but wouldn't have to pass a barrage of scrutiny/sweat the pressure of having to pass off the "fake" once finished. It's not about work........ Because the sellers that salt a few WV Swirls and white based Corks into their, otherwise, totally worthless lots of Peltier rainbos and baseballs, un-noteworthy catseyes new All Reds and a few Vacors don't need to invest in an exotic to sucker buyers into bidding up their listings. His point was that no exotics have been offered in lots........ah heck...you know what he meant! And whats all this about this dig in 2000 as the Genesis of exotics? They're just striped opaques, striped transparents and submarines (maybe guineas, too). Where's the mystery or controversy? 2000 dig? Who said anything about a 2000 dig? Color combo ....pattern... quantity ..no cullet backing...quality...sneaky deals....and so on. pics One is a flame and the only one close to an exotic is in the 1st pic upper right. If it contains the odd color mix of mauve, light green, baby blue etc it would be. I can't tell. But, interesting in that, it would be the earliest sighting(for me) of an exotic. several of which are the same, exact, CAC's I've seen and bid on(and won a few) on eBay, consistently offered at a rate of one to three, or so, a week there. Marblealan sells them on consignment pretty regularly since May that I know of - usually one or two each week but I haven't seen him use "exotic" in his listings descriptions and why would he? They seem to sell fine without the controversial moniker Using "exotic" would not enhance a listing or marblealan would surely use it! Lots of hurt feelings under this cloud. I sent pics of mine to marblealan to get his opinion on the current market. He replied......At this time, I'm not selling any contemporaries. After a frantic reply, he said he made a mistake and sold them.lol What about the ignored stuff .........Are the Art's marble people? Why sell to the Art's? Is the story the same for Ken and the others? Ken writes in an old thread how Bill T has one of the trusted eyes, thinks they are real and was in it early. Read Bill's posts! What do you think of VT's Thelma marble? mon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Here is Ken's post... the in it early stuff is in another post... I don't pretent to be omniscient about Christensen Agate like you, Don. It seems the older I get, the less sure I am about a lot of things. The best eyes for CA that I know belong belong to Brian Estepp. Bill Tow, Charlie Hix, Alan Bassinet, Don Rios and recently departed Les Jones. I think I can speak for them in saying that they do not consider them fakes- not even suspicious. Could you give us contact info for one of your "old time collectors" who is positive that they are fakes ? I, for one, think we have yet to see all the varieties of mibs that Christensen Agate produced- and that is the fun of this great hobby. The hobby is hurt when unfounded remarks are make on a public forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I think the seller I'm asking about was Gerhardt Baz. His ebay seller ID was something like gbantiks. I jumped on a couple of his marbles shortly after he started selling on ebay. So.......does anyone know if he's still selling? I've bought from him, but I haven't seen anything from him on ebay lately -- sorry to say. He usually had interesting stuff, quite a bit dug -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydetul62 Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I am like the Speedster. Andrea? How are your questions about gbantiks related to any part of this thread about exotics? He has never sold anything except german handmades and some german machine mades. Your portion about Thelma was spot on. I used to own a Thelma marble. It was one of the last ones she sold. It looks similar to yours. I gave it to a good friend. When I gave it to him I couldnt remember the sellers name. Maybe he can take a pic of it. How about it Galen? Do you still have that clear based with yellow stripes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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