david Chamberlain

Thanks. I thought this Thread had disappeared. The article link is helpful and in Photo 2 you can see the Champion New Old Fashions that are larger (13/16"). Unfortunately the photo is a bit dark in its reproduction and you're not fully able to appreciate the colors in many of them. This is a killer group which I still occasionally sell. Cathy Runyan-Svacina The Marble Lady was the woman behind seeing that Dave Mc and Champion came up with these marbles because there really wasn't much in the way of cool marbles available at the time. I imagine Cathy got quite a few of these and gave them out in her many marble workshops with kids at schools throughout the communities. I do state in the article that Dave was attempting to duplicate old Ravenswood marbles but for anyone familiar with Ravenswood you wouldn't have any trouble IDing these. They stand on their own. I think it was an effort to make some new marbles as beautiful as Ravenswood marbles which I look upon as a token of respect for the marbles of the past. Heck, these Champion marbles are already 25 years old, maybe not vintage but they do have a bit of age and it seems have receded in the minds of many marble collectors. Time to bring them back! David

Ann, If it's not irony it's satire or polysyllabic words or just plain properly structured sentences that get slammed as an affront to someone's sensibilities. Thankfully I haven't seen the latter for 2 or 3 days at least. I may just have to unload some big ones David

I don't believe there's any size rule as all size marbles have had oxblood. It's just that with experience some of us have come to recognize that a certain style(color, pattern, etc) of marble that also has oxblood is generally found in a specific size. So, seeing the marble in this thread and realizing it is just at 1 inch would immediately have a "I don't think so" thought come to my mind because the likelihood of oxblood occuring in a marble of that size in a cork screwing configuraion would be on the far end of possibilities. David

Interesting and you're right about the size being a give-away. Most new collectors if not taken under someone's wing right away are all over the board in their acceptance of what constitutes oxblood. It has got to be one of the most confused colors going. Heck, I had some Red Jasper mineral marbles very early on that I could have sworn had oxblood! David

I have the supposed "Bad Boys" from this run in hand as I speak(or type). They were sent to me in one of Dave McCullough's patented rectangular boxes and I've what I expect is a fairly representative cross-section of them. Of course my opinion of them is prejudiced by too much marble knowledge but I find most of them slicker than snot. I could squirt these out of my hand w/o feeling a ripple in the glass. I'm pretty sure in any other encounter with them I'd right off say, "Jabo!" In the continuing pantheon of marble production and in this one in particular yes you'll find some look-a-likes but I believe with even a modicum of marble experience and the opportunity to look at all sides of the marble, judging the size, reflecting on the shades of color and striations and the whole host of other characteristics one would have to conclude that it had to be new. But human nature being what it is and all together too often $money$ being the name of the game and inexperience being a quick road to folly with possibly a smattering of greed on both sides of the marble transaction, of course, we're going to have this marble making a sorry turn in the road as it rolls along. But what does it all mean and who's to blame? Obviously some of us have opinions on this but I do not see anyone in the creation of these marbles purposely attempting to undermine the integrity of the field of marbles as has been repeatedly impugned. Personally I find the marbles rather cool. And progressively the newer Jabos coming off the rollers cooler and cooler. Read the books, go to the marble shows, talk with other collectors and handle a lot of marbles. I mostly operate out of a second nature feel for marbles from having handled so many so those of you who haven't need to act accordingly. Don't purchase beyond your means. Buy condition and what you like and if later it turns out you didn't buy what you thought you'd bought at least it is in good condition and you like/liked it. Life is lessons! David

Just out of curiosity....what is it? You are showing its true colors in this post....right? David

That was a kick reading that old Ravenswood thread again, at least Pg. 2. I might add that I have discovered another Ravenswood oxblood variety and only had two of them until just the other day. Now I have three. My two came out of those boxes in the 1987 find and they are basically white with a semi-translucent swirl and a distinctive thin line of oxblood that follows the green swirl. Amazingly one of the two bags of Ravenswood that digswithstick just sent me that he turned up in an antique shop had one exactly like the other two I have. Boy was I stoked! I need to call him and let him know he needs to look closely at his bags. I understand Ron is getting some of the bags as well. Most all of the marbles in the bags appear to duplicate marbles from the 1987 find. I'm not sure just how old the actualy marbles are but I would suspect late 1930s/early 1940s. I'm guessing. David

Your Cub Scouts and Bumble Bees are in all probability Vacor. I've seen them and the Vacors are sufficiently different not to fool someone with a little experience with regular Bumble Bees and Cub Scouts by Marble King. Not that being fooled wouldn't escape everyone. It is more in the degree of knowledge and familiarity that the collector has then in the marbles themselves. On the other question of Jabos and Ravenswoods. I have both.....in spades and I have never seen a Ravenswood that approaches the appearance of Jabos. I have seen Ravenswoods with ironclad provenance that I didn't think were Ravenswood. Try that one on. Lest anyone forget within the first 2 or 3 Posts of this donnybrook the initial educational subject matter was clearly hijacked and turned around to an accusation against Jabo for purposely making and/or attempting to make vintage marbles. So while I've tried to turn this around again to an Educational endeavor I am not pleased that the Thread has been permeated with negative feelings towards Jabo. Some of you might be ticked off at me but I have actually attempted to keep the matter on track. David

That's right you did ask if these were Marble King. Good possibility. Maybe more recent unless you have some info. re. their acquisition that would prove otherwise. David

Well, ain't we just larnin' a lot here from our resident Jabo expert Galen. And his offering you consider a contribution to the education of marble people re. the subject of fraudulently manufactured Jabo marbles imitating vintage marbles? I don't think so. I'm still waiting for something of substance to pop up. Unfortunately I do not have any Jabo repros to contribute. David

Re Champion sizes: Amongst my older Champions I do not have much in the way of larger marbles. They're mostly 5/8". But the new Old Fashions have at least five different varieties that are 13/16" . There's one with Grey, green w/outline of light orange in milky white. There's a Milky and bluish white with light greens and dark browns and black. There's one like the first one I've mentioned here but denser colors and stronger orange accent. There's one specifically called a 'Gypsy Slag' that's orange, tan, brown and milky white. And there's one that's a milky red slag w/very light yellow. Actually quite beautiful. All right at 13/16". I have only one larger and it's just under 7/8" but it could pass for Vitro; it has always perplexed me. I'd just been accused of not offering much in the way of information here on the Board in another Thread so I thought I'd just toss this out for the heck of it. What total foolishness that I don't contribute. David P.S. There are pics of these in my Champion article at joemarbles.com but it's a group pic and the reproduction of it is a bit dark. I think it is clearer at Marble Mental. Unfortunately my photograph of them did not make it to Mike's book AMERICAN MACHINE-MADE MARBLES because they mistakingly included two pics of Old Fashions and accidentally left out the New-Old Fashions group. I have a set of something like 28 of the New-Old Fashions that I sell that I've had since about 1991 and got them from good ol' Charlie Sutsman.

Sami, Galen posted bupkis! And sarcasm is a proper response. David Hint: Mylee marbles 4-1-'09

Oh! Ain't we learnin' a lot from this. Oh my! David

As much as it pains me to say it Galen's suggestions are spot-on. I couldn't have said it better myself. You have a good show in your Taco Wagon, no jingoistic ethnic slant meant by that! David

I don't have any with that intensity of blue either. I love those. I do have a great cat's-eye that I named a Windex Cat's-Eye for having the same color as Windex. But these are INTENSE. Nice. See, even the simplest designed cat's-eye you can get off on. David

I experienced right brain fluctuations just reading the article. I'm still vibrating. David

I'm not 100% sure but I'm thinking that Parrots of that caliber are worth around $125 ea. these days. At the very least $90 ea. and if you got all the marbles for $90 you're skating free on this one. Besides, you have two killer marbles. David

I NEED that Blue & Silver one.....now and especially so for proper right brain congruency. David

I just knew that something was going on! David

Actually there are three books out specifically on the Jabo marble runs of the past 2-3 years with add'l background on earlier Classic Runs including pictures, names, numbers, etc. The info. about the books and how and where to purchase them have been out there for some time. Granted this is not the hearwithall and a requirement of attending shows, noching with other marble collectors and fully immersing one in the hobby is necessary. But you can go to Jabo Land and view Thread after Thread that provides excellent pictures and in many cases marble names all identified from specific runs that you've enquired about here. It's just that it's practically a full time job to stay on top of it. No one ever said that marbles were easy. David

The other small(5/8") ones look Jabo to me too but those two Vitro Parrots appear to have anything you could ever want in a Parrot. Very nice. What's the condition? If mint they are pricey but I'm not up on values. For the most part that's pretty much all that you have there but those two ain't a woofin'! The other large one looks Vitro but not terribly exciting. David

Hey! How about that. A thread about what it's all about.....A MARBLE. How to go Duffy! You are the man! David

The cool thing about that run is that similar marbles w/o the lutz are also over-the-top and as far as I've been able to determine from the ones I've received and I got some of the better ones, they are generally recognizable and unlike anything previously produced in the field of marbles. I am coveting mine! David P.S. O.K., I sent seven or maybe it was nine of them with pink for a special friend's cedar marble box in Duluth MN.

Is that Leroy65 'cause he has a Thread titled JUST WONDERING on this page down a few clicks. Check it out and PM. David

Some cat's-eyes were meant for you to lose your mind over. You appear to have blended vanes here presenting all the more difficulty. You clearly need someone to drag you away from your marbles. David