Steph

Can't vote. My answer isn't up there.

If you think that patches have "exquisite patterns" then we're not going to come to a meeting of the minds on this. One thing I've learned from seeing more and more Akro ads is not to be too sure about anything. After you said my concept was killed, Craig posted the Popeye box ad with the moss agates in it. If you want to make the most progress with Akro ads you have to get your head around the idea that the people writing the ads recycled old text and pix, and probably often did not notice or care that some of the stuff was out of date. AND the people who wrote the ads weren't the people who made the marbles. Their terminology and perceptions might not match up for that reason. In Craig's first ad above, the adwriters had an old description of Moss Agates. They pasted it onto the layout. They didn't doublecheck it and modify the old moss agate description when they worked on the rest of the flyer. [Note: all 3 pages are part of the same flyer.] To get the most out of the ads you gotta have checks and balances between what you see in your hand and what is there on the paper. Context matters. You're certainly free to have different perceptions and interpretations than I. I'm just gonna repeat this as I duck out - if you think patches have "exquisite patterns" then we see things very differently.

One inch slag (unless it's a cornelian ) I haven't seen anything larger than 1" in ads, as far as I can recall. The rest of the book: All About Marbles: A Little Book for Boys

Yah, that green looks different from Ace green. (to me) [edit: Aw heck, I'm stepping out of my depth. I admit I haven't see enough of these to have that good of a feel for how the light should react. I'll leave my original post below, but feel free to disregard.] Galen, can you get a sense of where the opalescence seems to emanate from? Is it the milky area? The wispy area? Or maybe the interplay of the two? If I ever got to see the original swirly moss packaging in person I would want to check out how the light played in the glass. I've long wondered whether it was the grain itself in the Realer and the striation itself in the Aces, which caused the opalescence. It has seemed to me that the fire in the least wispy Realers is concentrated in the few wispy areas. Also, I've had some non-Akro game mibs with great fire which I also thought came from some filamentation. But I don't yet know how to confirm. I think I need a physics major or a glass maker here to consult with. :-)

Could a fracture be responsible for what you're seeing?

Moving this from the Ace vs. Moss Agate thread since my post was not close enough to the topic of that thread. Basically I just wanted to single out this box. I find it very interesting. It has some marbles in it which I'm not sure about. One almost looks like a Vitro fingers mib to me but more than 8 fingers. (at the top, just left of center) Eneeway. Neat snapshot. Per the ad, this is "4 No. 2 Moss Agate Shooters, 10 No. 1 Prize Name Agates, and 24 ring-size mibs in a variety of kinds and colors". (click for larger version): LOL. Now that I'm looking at it again, it's not something I have a pressing interest in! LOL. It totally wasn't worth sidetracking that other thread with. But if anyone does want to comment . . .

And now for something completely different! I looked up some 1930-ish pieces about the comics, and the comics themselves. Here's a 1933 article I wanted to link somewhere. Here is good enough: How Comic Cartoons Make Fortunes I like this 1931 YouTube clip even more though: Classic Chicago Tribute Cartoonists p.s. Didja know that Herbie was Smitty's brother? And Kayo was Moon Mullins' brother? And Emma was Moon's landlady. Ko Ko, Bimbo and Betty all have the same creator, Max Fleischer. Bimbo might've introduced Betty. Betty introduced Popeye, well, the film version of Popeye , , , but Popeye would take me off topic. LOL. Wouldn't want to do that.

p.s. check out the bottom gift box. ... edit: moving my way off topic comment. lol

That's some nice detail. It should spawn a lot of discussion, maybe for years to come. lol Moss Agates are mentioned/shown on all three pages, but with seeming contradictions. Like where the swirly moss description is on the same page as a picture of a box of moss patches. It's an example of one of their patchwork ads. It has a mixture of old and new elements. And some errors, possibly partly due to the disconnect between the people writing the ad and the people who knew the inventory best. But it is still a fabulous source of info if you're patient enough to iron out the wrinkles. LOL.

Those ringers are beauts! I don't see popeye-lites though. I see MORE. I see translucent glass in addition to the clear and wispy white. When people in the past have posted mibs and asked "is this a ringer?", I've said "no" because I saw the translucent glass. Now I think the translucent glass belongs. Gorgeous examples, Craig. Thanks for sharing.

The Ringer is a collectors' name, not an Akro name. It is supposedly based on what has been found in Ringer Marble Set boxes. My mention of it today was a platform to discuss what is actually found in those boxes. I don't use the term Snake. It is not an Akro name as far as I know. The term Onyx is an Akro name, and I use it appropriately, as far as I know. I give up talking about the clear glass. I don't agree with what you think would "follow". Sorry you don't think I'm being consistent enough. I've already admitted to picking and choosing what to take with me from different descriptions. However, I happen to believe I choose intelligently, taking a large body of information into consideration. Some people have more information than I do but I have a lot. I have no reason to doubt that the swirly moss agate box is filled correctly. I would have to throw out a lot of evidence if I restricted conclusions about swirly/corky moss agates to what I see in a patch box. Akro's ad writers were not looking at plain patches when they described Moss Agates as "... the most beautiful marble Akro Agate has ever produced. Highest quality moonstone glass, soft pastel colors contrasted with more vivid hues in exquisite patterns - pale green with maroon, cream with deep blue, etc. ..." No hard feelings. I just believe it would be walking backward to toss out the information that box gives us.

Yeas, that's what I've been saying. That's where Dani and I have had a difference of opinion, but that's what I have been saying. The box? Which box? Did you see the blue and yellow ones in the box on the front page? Oh and there is one peeking out of the box above also. Do those count? One Akro ad for moss agates mentions pale green with maroon. I'd like to see that! But maybe I already have - perhaps the "maroon" was oxblood.

yum!

Not sure why you bring up the lack of clear. Was that because Ringers are said to have clear? If you go with the traditional collectors' description of Ringers then yours would not be one. Whether it had clear or not. The translucent base would sink you. If your mind is open about the moss agate option, then clear is not an integral part of the marble, as far as I understand. Yes it shows up a lot in the swirly ones but I don't think it's a requirement. But if I'm wrong altogether about your cork even being related to the swirly mosses then nevermind. I have to go back to my cave and regroup. LOLOL

hehe. you have a point.

Yah, somewhere between a swirl and a clearie. Don't know if this is one of their colors but Champ did a lot like that. Not one of the money mibs. :-)

Yup, Ann. The "traditional" one is what you and Charles said. Short-changed Popeye. Clear base, wispy white, one color. Popeye-Lite. But did Akro make those on purpose? I wanna see more pix of them. LOL. It's been so hard to find any "true", "traditional" ones, that this alone might cause suspicion about them being a regular item to put in the Ringer Marble Sets. The subject comes up with some frequency. Someone asks, "Is this a ringer?" The typical answer is "no". The standard verbal description is given for them. But then it's rare that anyone can come up with a pic of a "real" one. Why are they so hard to find? Bubba, I'd be tempted to call yours a ringer, by my new understanding. I'd feel safer calling it a moss agate since that is my best guess for what Akro woulda called it. But it does look like the style which often seems to come in ringer boxes. It's a most excellent marble, no matter what. It's too bad it doesn't have a really good name. A name we could all agree on (lol), and then get past, so that we would be free to ooh and aah the mib.

oh man oh man. Dani's gonna murderize me.

Bill, about your cork here: I think that some collectors might i.d. it as a Ringer. This is SUCH a controversial i.d. but I'm starting to buy it. It fits for a number of reasons. For one, translucent mibs seem to appear so often in Ringer Marble Sets such as Lloyd's here. Are they all backfilled? (click to enlarge) . . For another reason, it seems really hard to find examples of "true" ringers (by the traditional definition). Why aren't there more in circulation? Of course there are still dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of collectors who will stand by the traditional definition. One of the very few "traditional" ones I've ever seen even in a photo (from ebay):

Thanks Dani for taking a generous interpretation! We do agree on the key points of the moss vs. Ace divide but we still disagree about moss corks. And you're going to want to throw a shoe at me for the thread I'm about to start. I know it. A heavy, steel-toed, size 17, studded work boot. I beg for forgiveness in advance! !

Our understanding of the subject continues to be refined. I believe there is an archived thread, started intentionally as a myth buster, but ironically I think it still contains some errors. It might yet be awhile before it all gets nailed down. Dani and I are two of the main online advocates of a more rigorous undertanding of Aces, but as you see she and I don't even see eye to eye on all of the related material.

Here's something which I don't think is understood perfectly: When were the swiry/corky moss agates made? When were the patch moss agates made? I think it's generally thought that the swirly ones stopped being made very early. But I think they may have overlapped. Didn't the moss agate patches start by 1934? Possibly before 1934, even? Yet the swirly moss agates were being sold into 1935, and maybe 1936, maybe later. Here's a Jan. 1935 ad. I've also seen a 1936 popeye ad which looks like it might have some mossy swirls. And we've seen them in Popeye boxes. (click to enlarge) Jan. 1935 -- Visi Paks Live and in color:

Specials update: I have lost track now of how many boxes or compartments I've seen labeled However, I do have a copy of an Akro pricelist which at least partially explains why the contents of an "Akro Special" box would be all over the place. This is from a 1933 jobbers price list which George Sourlis sent me: (click to enlarge) I still haven't seen any evidence that Special ever referred to one particular type of marble. It just makes sense to me that the Specials compartment in the salesman case would be for mibs which weren't part of the main selection but Akro still wanted people to know about - such as popeyes, carnelians or other unusual corks! (click to enlarge) And we definitely know that at one point at least, Akro called 3-color corks "tri-color agates", as seen on the catalog page below. So did they ever change over to calling those specific marbles Specials? Or did the tradition of calling them Specials come about in modern times? (click to enlarge)

izn't he the cutest thing.

Oh dang, I deserve a thrashing for leaving out Bo's mibs. Time to quit trying to acknowledge them all and just watch for awhile!