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Speaking Of Flames


winnie
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Ron,I've searched the internet for a long time cause me too want to know it.

There were so many glasshutten in former east Germany,all of them had the potential to make marbles as a by-product.

I think it was not that important for them as it is for us now these days.

I know they're proud of theire hand mades,there's a little documentation about handmades thats all there is.

About old machine mades nothing so far is documentated causes by the lack of interest.

I can't do this on my own.

Cees do you know something more about old machine made marbles?

Immuehlba thats a nice flame.

winnie

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Mike,I've always thought that this sort swirls are slightly related to the wirepulls.

Often they have a brownish transp- base,this one has a red transp- base.

Thanks for all the pictures,they look all foreign,are they?

Anyway a nice collection of wirepulls,sparkler types-German 2 seam slags and striped opaques?

Your fourth picture,the white base with yellow stripes,whats it?

winnie

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Cees do you know something more about old machine made marbles?

Hi Winnie, first of all, you've got a very nice marble there, thanks for sharing.

About the European machine made marbles. About this marble I can't tell you much more, than you allready know, these flametypes, made in Germany, are one of the rarest made there, where and when it was made, I don't know.

What I do know, is that the German transperants, and -opaques, ( slags as some of you call them) where made in Lauscha, because that's the reassson you can find them in the museum there. These marbles were one of the first machine mades in Thüringen. About the German sparklers, I think that name is totaly wrong, should be European Sparklers. I only found a few of my collection in Germany, while I was there, the rest of it, I've found in France, every summer we have holliday in France and of course I did my homework there. For me it is 100% sure that the European Sparklers were also made in France, and I think most of them.

In the south-east of France, there is an area, that's looks very much like the area around Lauscha Thüringen, also this area is famous about it's glassworks, for example the presse papiers were made there. The sparklers must have been made, in, or close to the village of Biot, in the middle of that area.

More then ones, this was told me by an antiqairian. Also the marbles here were made in the same way, as they did in Germany, by leftovers, kind of EOD's.

I also met a man in Holland, who told me that his father was the last director of a factory in Holland where they made several items of glass, including marbles, there should been two machines in that factory, for making glass marbles in that time. Funny about this story is: he has no evidence for that, no pictures, no administration nothing.

The factory did exist, that's for 100% sure and indeed they made glass products there, but I can't find anything about making glass marbles. But I will continue, and let you know if I can find some evidence.

Just like you, I'm always looking for the history of the European machine made marbles, but it is very hard to find some of it.

Sorry for the bad English.

Cees.

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Hi Cees,thanks for the response.

It's kind of funny that you mentioned the glass factory in Holland that has made glass marbles.

Here's what I know about it:A close friend of me,told me that he went with his father in the 50s to a glass factory to buy marbles.

You see his father was an artist who made sculptures of pottery,sometimes he used glass for his objects,he melt the marbles.

The funny thing is:this glass-factory was located 100 yards from where i live in Amsterdam.

The adress was:Realengracht 20 Amsterdam.

The name of the factory was:Veiligglas N.V.

In a local newspaper the son of the factory's owner has confirmed that marbles were made in the factory.

At that time the son was too young (the 50s)to remind himself much more.

Till now i've not done enough research about the whole thing,I still don't know what kind of marbles were made there.

When I know something more I'll let you know.

The building doesn't excist anymore,new appartements are build at that place.

Here's a picture that was add by that interview,where the factory was located.

Wanna dig there?LOL

winnie

010122026474.jpg

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Hi Winnie, yes years ago I met that man, and indeed he was a son of the last director. He gave me info about that factory, also about the marble machines that should operated there. Also he gave me some pics of marbles, that should been made overthere. If you wouldn't know better, you should say, that those were made in Germany. With the manufactering of the machines, there was a link to Germany, so it could be that those marbles were indeed made in Holland.

I don't know what to do with al his info, nowhere I can find any evidense, not in Leerdam, not in the archives of the city of Amsterdam, only two pics, one of them you showed just. For now I've closed the case, if you want to call it like that, I've lost contact, because I thought I was for sure on a dead end, not telling he lied, but he didn,t tell everything he knew I think, and maybe he was right?

Maybe, if you want to, you can pickup more than I did, but that's up to you.

I did find some other evidense, of a marblefactory, also in the area of Amsterdam, were they indeed made marbles, not glass- but clay marbles. I collected some pics and an old newspaperarticle of it, did you also found that factory?

What's youre opinion about the Sparklers, I'm very interested in that, because I can't imagen that some of your Sparklers, don't have a link to, or are not found in France. This year (Dordogne) I've found several overthere, including a commercial one, with "Bonux" on it. Nice shopping there, 10 for 50 Eurocent, or three large ones and a handfull of old clays, for 1 Euro. My wife and children love to go to France and I'm very happy with that, there's a lot of historie and marbles to pick up for us, and it's a very beautifull country.

Cees

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Cees can you post the 2 pictures of the marbles,you've got from that man?

About the sparkler types,I really don't know where they have been made,I can found them in so many European country's and there are so many different type's at this moment I'm a bit lost.

I've a sparkler type with Bonux printed on it,i've also one with Bonux engraved,think the engraved one is older.

About the German striped transparants,they are different from the 2 seam German slags,the slags have a colored or clear transp- base with white stripes in and on them.

The striped transp- have a second or more colored stripes.They can be beautiful,Galen has a beautiful German striped transp-,I must have that picture somewhere in my photo files.

As for the clay's yes I know there was a factory in Amsterdam who made them.

Because i'm not so interested in clay marbles I have not done research,Read the article in the newspaper,if I remember well there was a picture of the inside of the factury.

Here's a bonux sparkler type.

winnie

bonspa.jpg

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Winnie, about the two pics, I ment the pics of the factory (building) that I found in the Archives of the city of Amsterdam, you just showed one of them.

The pics of the marbles, that should been made in Amsterdam, I haven't got any more, they lost because of a crash in my computer. But I can easely discribe them, those were all Wirepulls, just like they made them in Germany, during the 50's-60's. As I told you, if you didn't know, you should think it were German Wirepulls.

And if you realy want to know, I was a little (or a lot) dissapointed, I hoped to see some rare Dutch marbles, that we never saw before, but that wasn't it. If you threw them in a jar with other German marbles, you would never find them again.

About the Sparkler, I also found them in 5 different European countries, but far the most in France and the ones I've found in Holland had mostly a link to France.

The German Transparants and "slags" : you may name it as you like, everybody may do that. I just call them German striped Transparants or -Opaques. I don't think there were 2 seam slag's made in Germany, but that's my opinion, and that I think is the problem, there are a lot of opinions about the European machine made marbles.

The factory, where they made claymarbles, was, as far as I know, not in Amsterdam, but close to it?

Cees.

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Cees the factory of the clay's could have been in the area of Amsterdam,can't remember.

Galen I was wondering myself the same thing,this was the picture add by the article.

The surroundings there are completely changed.

Translation of the article:the factory area ran entirely of the Realengracht to the Vierwindenstraat.

So maybe the marble factory was behind the building pictured.

More info out of that article:The glass factory has excist from 1936 till 1970.The marble factory has excist from 1949 till 1960.

Actually I didn't want to bring this story up,not untill I have more facts,because i couldn't believe it myself in the first place.

Cees could you please post that other picture of the buildings?

winnie

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Cees the factory of the clay's could have been in the area of Amsterdam,can't remember.

Galen I was wondering myself the same thing,this was the picture add by the article.

The surroundings there are completely changed.

Translation of the article:the factory area ran entirely of the Realengracht to the Vierwindenstraat.

So maybe the marble factory was behind the building pictured.

More info out of that article:The glass factory has excist from 1936 till 1970.The marble factory has excist from 1949 till 1960.

Actually I didn't want to bring this story up,not untill I have more facts,because i couldn't believe it myself in the first place.

Cees could you please post that other picture of the buildings?

winnie

Winnie that picture is also lost, I'm sorry but if you also look in Archives of Amsterdam you've got to find it, it did that also.

The area of the factory was indeed very large, on this picture you only see a smal part of it. The marblefactory was indeed behind the main building.

The main glass they used for there items wasn't made in Amsterdam, but in Germany. They only made it on size and colored it, if it had to.

The leftovers from the main factory, were used for the making of the glassmarbles, so in the same way like they did in Germany (Illmenau) and France (Biot). The factory (marbles) wasn't operating full time,if they had enough leftovers, the machines had to be operational. The leftovers were most uncolored, so they had to color the marbles. By each machine, worked 1 man, so 2 man in total. His father imported the machines from Germany in parts and build them up again in Amsterdam, before he did that, he visited a few times a marblefactory in Germany.

The story goes that one of the machines is now in the Glasmuseum, close to where I live, but I don't believe that, I think that the machine, standing there, was never used, they also told me that in the museum, but I could be wrong of course.

So far the story looks good, and with youre story next to it, it might be, that there was indeed a marblefactory in Amsterdam.

I've digged deep, for more evidence, but that's hard to find, also because, they didn't made that much marbles there, because the machines were not always operational. But it could be, that the wirepulls, in youre and mine collection, were not all made in Germany, but also in Amsterdam. It is a fact, that we can find a lot of them here, isn't it?

Btw, the clay marbles were made in Diemen, now you remember it?

Cees.

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