honeybern Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) big deal.....get some classes on how to act around adults then come back Let me see the adults act like adults, then get back to me. (I assume you were referring to me, maybe just forgot to click "quote" first?) And I didn't go after ANYONE - I was just defending myself. If anyone can't handle it, maybe they shouldn't click the quote button in my posts with bad intent if they don't want their nose bloodied. I have never attacked another member or talked trash about anyone's post, first, but I'm not taking crap from anyone, either. Specially not from someone I don't know from Adam, have never met, never exchanged any words with, who introduces themselves by quoting my post then proceeds to try and dismantle my position, statement by statement, with BS, spewed from the side of their unwashed neck. Edited August 24, 2011 by honeybern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honeybern Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 A lawyer from Harvard? Big deal. Who are you trying to impress? You have a lot to learn. Doesnt matter where you go. You just better be at top of your class in these times. We have in this hobbies all kinds of people, teachers, contractors, customer service, engineers, doctors etc, etc, I have met a lot of people in 12 yrs. We have one thing in common. Those little glass balls. At shows we put aside who we are and appreciate the hobby. Sorry to get off topic. The honey berned a little. You have no clue what you're talking about or who you're even talking to, do you? lol! I was clowning you. ("you" meaning all of you). When I said I'm attending Harvard Law school, I meant that I was attending sometime after I finish Jr high and high school. Oh yeah, and college. Don't you ever read someone's profile before engaging? Or even their previous posts within the thread you're participating in? I'm only 12 and gram's, here, my great grandma, honeybern, is 94 and registered here so I could post cuz I can't register anywhere til I'm 13 (can't post anything either unless she gives me the nod, post by post, and if she's snoring it could be a while) It's all in our profile. I mainly just wanted access here for help with marble IDing, but its so crazy here sometimes I can't resist jumping in the mix. Peace, clyde! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanB Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 If the truth of these will not surface, then we're left with...... The owners of these marbles want them to be authentic and recognized as such. The non-owners want the opposite so they can can buy some for $10 at some point. Not very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Posted 23 December 2005 - 09:31 AM Kokoken Where is Bill Tow on this topic ? He is as knowledgeable as anyone on exotics and has had loads of experience with them. I would love hear from him. Like I stated earlier, the top players just disappear and act as if they don't care. Is Bill T. trying to distance himself from any involvement? I give R. Hall credit, he explained his side and was willing to talk with anyone. He even encouraged me to have members call him. It's the closest "what happened" explanation from a major player I've heard that was told by the Art's. Does it hold water? Clyde, I will call the garage again to ask about the concrete for the garage. I will see if she can dig up dates of any major events that involved earth moving. mon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marboman Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Winnie,sorry you don't like the pick.It's an angry German mob that's going after the legendary Frankenstien monster .I thought of it in response to greg11 response that we should just go dig the place up.My feeble attempt at humor.But maybe it's to late for that.Did I mention I collect marbles too and find this thread very interesting as I have seen "exotics" myself,although very beautiful the colors seem a bit off to me,but I am not an expert in this area.Maybe that's why they call them "exotics"you know,introduced from abroad,foreign.Although they could be totally authentic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honeybern Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Smart kid, but needs to respect people/elders that have been in this hobby WAY before you were born. Learn by talking to them. Go to shows. Books will get only about 25% of edjucation. Dont put them down unless you know why they made the comment. Ask people to get a life because of envy? Do you know who Craig is? If you dont know that person you should ask someone maybe before you cut them down. And in a prev post you talked about a seller screwing a 12 yr old and a granny. Very nice mibs for a 12 yr old milk money and a granny! Craig was correct about following the money. It still goes back to the Arts and Thelma. They aint gonna talk. So, even after 10+ yrs we wont get a true answer. I have about 25 so called exotics. When all this hit the fan and prices dropped, people saying fake, etc. I havent gotten one in about 7 yrs. Will I ever buy one again? Who knows? Will I sell them? Not likely. Do I belive they real? On the fence until have more evidence than heresay. Why do people who say they're fake and say they know who made them wont talk. There were death threats made to people during that time. There were 10's of k's $$$$ changing hands. What have I been concentrating on all this time? Ask around Jon. Mon? When you were talking to Cambridge, did you ask the about when they redid the concrete for the city garage? That's when it was suppossed to have been done. On your pic Mon I could see where some might be suspect and need in hand. Unless you show more sides. Some you just haveta to see in hand. Its great that you would sacrifice one to be tested. Does anybody know a lab that can do this? Secret things? Only selling to certain dealers? That goes on today. Many marbles never reach the public market. A big stash found? Need quick turn over? Dealers know who will buy right now. Thanks Steph for this thread. Thanks Mon for doing some digging info that other people might not do. No I don't know who Craig is. I don't need to know who Craig is, as far as this topic is concerned. I know who Brian Estepp is. I know who Alan Bassinet is. And I know that a dozen low level, big shot marble wannabes packed into the same thread don't have the combined expertise or authority that either Mr Estepp or Mr Bassinet possess to lend any credence or have any lasting effect on the trade in CAC exotics. Maybe I don't know why Craig said what he said. It sounded like envy but it could just as well have been for economic, competitive reasons. If I was wrong, I apologize. I hear a lot of grumbling about who has and who has not been given access to the purchase of these marbles at the wholesale level. But since exclusivity happens in every branch of commerce and trade, along with the same kind of grumbling from those who feel they have been left out, hearing it now only further supports my position . I'm sure there are myriad reasons why different people would want to discredit the authenticity of these marbles but with every post as lacking in evidence as the one before it the notion grows more and more incredulous. After re-reading this entire thread, the opponents have, other than wild accusations and absurd conspiracy theories, no substantial case and, collectively, sound like bunch of whiners and crybabies. Furthermore, if you read the OP, I don't see how anyone get's "Attack CAC exotics!" from "What does a CAC Exotic look like? How are they different from regular CAC's?" so why those who have gone on the offensive in this matter are thanking Steph for this thread, as if she's "with you", is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honeybern Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 If the truth of these will not surface, then we're left with...... The owners of these marbles want them to be authentic and recognized as such. The non-owners want the opposite so they can can buy some for $10 at some point. Not very good. You are absolutely right! But right or wrong, the noise made by the forces that drive the ebb and flow of market demand will drown out the naysayers, as is always the case, the truth be damned! While "the owners" continue to promote and trade in these marbles, the "non-owners" won't be able to afford the time away from the trade they do have to mount an offensive substantial enough to have any lasting effect in their favor.. Expect this same debate to repeat, over and over, at regular intervals, similar to those before it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydetul62 Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I never thought you were already a lawyer or attending Harvard at current time unless you are a child prodigy.. If you had quoted post 166 first, then 168 you would have understood that. No matter what college you graduate from it doesnt mean as much as it used too. Good luck in your future for you. I hope you make it true. Dont play the 12 yr old and Grams card too much. It can wear on people real fast. Like any hobby and most things in life learn the players in the game. Learn their positions. Learn what they do. What they collect. Do they specialize in any one company? Contact them if possible. If you dont have free long distance on your phone you better get it. Ask as many questions as can. People will help you if you dont bite them. If you dont know who they are dont make rude comments. If you can go to a show. Books will only get you about 25% of learning from this hobbly. Nothing against you or Gram's Jon just trying to help. Surprising Alan has only been to a few shows, but he has had 10'ks of marbles go through his hands. After over 10 yrs very little of true story is out. The diggers arent likely to say anything. For their benefit all the untrue stories only help them. At least one of the big players is dead. Anybody that tells you they fake? I say prove it! Anybody say they know who made them? No answer from them either. Some who this have also passed away. I havent seen any new ones come out in a good 5 or more yrs. Are the Art's holding some of the best of the best of the best back as rumored? Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 At some point during my holdings of said marbles, I talked with Alan B. over the phone. He was upset over some known new marbles that caused him great concern. He said somethings to the effect that if he has been duped, fur would fly. I don't remember if he told me the maker or not......I think I was in a state of shock. lol mon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolbrezz Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Are you guys sure his is twelve? Really? You should not go behind your Grams back! Very disrespectfu!!!! I am telling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipocritter Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I bet that Horse Ain't Dead Yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckEye Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 This same topic comes up every year. I started a good thread on it last year and the same thing always happens. Bickering and posturing take the place of fact and teamwork. This thing can be figured out, I am just waiting for someone to give factual info. I have yet to hear anything but hearsay and whispers. If everyone would add what they know or have heard it can help sort out the crap. I don't have any info to add, so I have just been lurking. Otherwise, it is just going to be you three insulting each other, then explaining and then apologizing in a six page tirade of nothingness. Stick your neck out, Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg11 Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 whoever is buying them is sending them back for consignment over and over again, or we are seeing duplicates sold. If someone is making them they are only releasing small batches throughout the year. Does anyone know if these were really found in a dig or found in someones house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumblebee Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I just find it odd that the people who believe and insist that they are real have no knowledge of their true origin. If they are real, then why didn't CAC make more like this? Were these like their last run before they closed down that they gave away to employees at the last party? If these were "the best of the best" that some employee secretly squirreled away, wouldn't someone at some point have said, "Bob, these are gorgeous. Let's make more like this so we can sell them." ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 These are absolutely authentic vintage CACs. Never found in packaging or at the digs that I know of. I know of no one that would question these. Lloyd did mention the horse was still kicking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Galen, these are hand gathered cac's. Do you think they were made at the Cambridge site? mon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Where ever CAC was first making marbles. I believe they did make marbles at the Payne address so that would be a good guess. There is just so little actually known what went on at that site(or Cambridge) I really am speculating as to what,when, how went on where. Were all the American Agates also made there or did they hand gather at Cambridge? If they hand gathered at Cambridge I would say these may have also been made there also as they almost perfectly match the coloring found on some 2 seam striped opaques. And if only rarity and condition(as in most other hobbies) determined value these types would be 10 times more costly than the so called Exotics. But marblers are a funny group, "pretty" means a lot more than it should in determining value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akronmarbles Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Those are not from Payne - I only found hand gathered cobalt, amber, and green slags at the Payne site. There were also pieces of the earliest gob fed marbles at Payne. That was the business edge that Jenkins was trying to work with CA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumblebee Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 This is far from a dead horse. If these are authentic, what does it matter whether they were dug up or from ex-employees? In either case, if the original finders would tell the truth and provide a shred of evidence, the value of these would skyrocket. Heck, even I would buy one. I find it impossible to fathom why they would not do this, since it would be honest, historically invaluable, boost their value, and shut people like me up once and for all and polish some of the tarnish this episode has brought--seemingly unnecessarily--onto the hobby. To me it seems to have grown the crazy legs similar to a treasure story. I feel like at any time we're going to hear that the original finders mysteriously disappeared in the deserts of Mexico while on vacation, or that these were actually discovered in the Roswell wreckage by a rancher and were presumably the playtoys of alien children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Don't no why but I thought it would be nice to post some more colorful German 2 seam marbles. I think the middle pic- shows the s shape. winnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdesousa Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Those are not from Payne - I only found hand gathered cobalt, amber, and green slags at the Payne site. There were also pieces of the earliest gob fed marbles at Payne. That was the business edge that Jenkins was trying to work with CA. Are you *sure* they're not from Payne? I have no knowledge of archeology, but why wouldn't the common aphorism "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" apply here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn691500 Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 we can never tell because of where they dumped it is a secret loacation and from what ive been told is sitting under a scrap glass dump from the other glass factory aways from the plant thats still working outta payne, you'de need a front end loader with solid tires and a heap of $$ for the land its sitting under,,, but he's right only slag frags surrounds actual building.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 This same topic comes up every year. I started a good thread on it last year and the same thing always happens. Bickering and posturing take the place of fact and teamwork. This thing can be figured out, I am just waiting for someone to give factual info. I have yet to hear anything but hearsay and whispers. If everyone would add what they know or have heard it can help sort out the crap. I don't have any info to add, so I have just been lurking. Otherwise, it is just going to be you three insulting each other, then explaining and then apologizing in a six page tirade of nothingness. Stick your neck out, Craig Thanks for posting your insult. I'm trying over here........believe it or not! I don't have any facts that can pin this topic down. But, I do have questions, replies, hearsay and whispers. If marblealan held known contemporary marbles that caused him to believe that he could have been duped.....so much for not being able to reproduce a Cac. mon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckEye Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Mon, I wasn't taking issue with you or anyone else. You are asking great questions, you guys were just getting off track. My point is that no one has given any answers and until they do everything is just hearsay. I am sure some lurkers here know at least some first hand info. There is nothing of note that hasn't already been said in previous posts and threads. I am asking them to stick their necks out, not you. Keep up the ?'s, maybe someone will break C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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