Reproductions And The Damage They Can Do??

[lstmmrbls]

Peddle cars were extremely collectible and had a wonderful resale value until cheap reproductions flooded the market. Values plummeted and collectors disappeared. The same happened to Cookie jars, Farm bells, and many other items. Shows have disappeared as well as collectors. I noticed marble show attendance slimming down and the value of many vintage machine made marbles plummeting about the same time the new run marbles started being made at Jabo. Is there any correlation at all? Heck, they have even attempted to make corkscrews.

[jeeperman]

I think you are climbing a nearly limbless tree here Galen. I do think that it does have an effect, however I think the economy and lack of new interest has a far bigger effect.

Repros have always been a thorn in the side of collectors but I have seen it work the other way as well. Where it drives a need to have the original.

[1313]

i think jeeperman is right on the money. although the jabo marbles and the sam and dave marbles are nice, they just dont have the age/history behind them.

now galen, you know the extreme cost of going to a marble show, its hard to spend that kinda money on some pipedreamin look around for vintage marbles. i just went to the flea market, what i found on pipedreamin didnt add up to what i spent in gas. i did use the restroom and left a present, may have been worth the whole trip........

[greg11]

yeah Galen, its all a pipedream and any marbles worth anything are scammed into a few individuals pockets

[Mike]

Hummmmm? Let me think about this one with regard to machine mades. Should I spend $500-$900 on a Christensen Exotic or some rare vintage round hunk of glass or buy a really fine Jabo or Sammy example for $.50 to $20.00 if I am into the really nice, mint examples and multiple colors of glass on one hunk? Contemps will be a different discussion. Won't be long and I will be selling every vintage and old marble that I own except for a few worthless ones from my original bag when I was age 10 or so and I am now 66. Watching the price that folks pay for some of this stuff reminds me of buying Enron or buying gold for $2,000 an ounce. Some informed collecters say they cannot tell the difference between a modern Jabo/Sammy and a vintage old valuable marble. If that is the case, save your money, don't get duped and do not overpay. My prediction is the goods will come way down in price. Baby Boomers dying and very few young collecters entering the market. Most of the folks with large holdings buy dear and sell high.

[sissydear]

I've been reading a notebook Randy Gossett gave me. He said it was a provenance book. Actually it's printed copies of the chatboards from long ago, some dating more than 10 years old, long before JABO or Sammy's. There were posts from Sue Cooper, Randy Gossett, Mike Edmondson, Bo Stiff, Buddy Bowles, Bill Tite, Guy Gregg, Alan Bassinet, Shell Neisler, Scott Patrick. and on and on. Long before I remember Galen Wilcox on the boards, The funny part is that people were discussing the downfall of marbles. Same arguments only it was antiques being copied by contemporary marble makers deliberately, etc. It was interesting and entertaining.

This post is clearly designed to create yet another controversy. What's wrong here? Are things too slow? Not enough posts so you want to create a stink?

There was a difference back then in how people disagreed. There was respect.

[lstmmrbls]

Yes there was respect. It seems to have disappeared. Just trying to get what I hoped would be a good discussion going. Can you respect that.

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

I personaly dont put a $$$$$$ as my priority when it come to my involvement with marbles.

I learned,long ago,it only leads to unhappiness,discontent,and not just in marbles but in life.

Probably shouldnt get involved with marbles if its about money.

Stick with the "Beanie Babbies",of the year,and know when to get out.Then move on,,,,,,,

[kbobam]

This subject reminds me of a comedy bit I heard once.

The female comedian was talking about her girlfriend who

had just given birth. "So she told me she was in labor

for eighteen hours. And my only reaction was 'Oh my

God!' I wouldn't even want to do something that feels

good for that long!"

[Steph]

I love you, Bob!

[lstmmrbls]

Scott, you just gotta go to the right flea markets. Just got all 5 of these bad boys for 80 bucks.

[bigjohn691500]

it fits, its funny, laugh out loud and have fun

[Killermarbles]

In the comic

That blonde must be something special, she has what appears to be a shadow. Nobody else has a shadow?

She must not be as transparent as the rest of them. LOL

Also they must be playing with carpet balls they are to big for marbles.

Now I've seen everything carpet balls by marble king?

The court jester dude has MK on his hat.

Those look like MK

Finally DON'T worry if the price of marbles falls, because then we can get great marbles for less money.

I can't wait to buy nice colored sulfides for $75.00 and C/A exotics for $5.00 each.

Randy

More collectors would join in collecting marbles and scammers might even leave.

[Mike]

I like it that some folks are all concerned about Jabo/Sammy and they are the topic of heated discussions. 15 years ago, a fairly high percentage of marble folks were dismissive of the Jabo product and had no time or interest in them. It did not matter how nice they were yet some would not even give Jabo a second look or stop by a room where Jabo would be traded and sold exclusively at a show. Maybe it is that old "what goes around, comes around" thing. Think back about when some collectors would only look for vintage handmades and were dismissive of even nice machine mades. This next statement may ruffle a few feathers but in some respects, Jabo may be a lot like Beanie Babies. Some very nice and somewhat hard to find examples of Jabo/Sammy are out there, they are still very affordable for the most part and certain of them will be sought after long after the bloom is off the rose. People still pay high dollars for the certain Beanies and others can be purchased in bulk for pennies on the dollar. I have three large plastic storage tubs of Beanies in my attic that were aquired when my children were on the hunt at the peak of the Beanie thing. I overpaid a couple times for a Peace or Diana bear but that was it. I could care less that the market for them went bust as I still think they were worth the $5 paid. If I every get a grandchild, they will be worth a million bucks when they are swimming in them on the living room floor. I get the same enjoyment today and the child comes out when I play with my Jabo marbles and I think I paid way less than they are worth.

[lstmmrbls]

I wonder how many folks that post here would have the involvement that they do with marbles if the were not making money from the hobby. I know I would. I do sell marbles at shows and to friends for more marble money but I must certainly agree marbles should never be looked at as any kind of monetary investment.

[machinemades]

I look at contemporary marbles as a separate classification in marble collecting. To me there are 1-antique handmade marbles (that could also be sub categorized into large and small), 2- machinemades (1915-1970), 3- modern machinemades (1970- today), 4- handmade contemporary. I do not believe these subcategories pose a threat to each other in terms of value or even the existence of the category. Rare machinemades will always hold their value and the collectors will not switch to jabo just because they are cheaper and resemble the old ones. I can speak only for myself but have a feeling I might have few that will think the same way.

Sami

[jeeperman]

In my 15 some odd years of collecting I have sold only 5 marbles. One group of green bricks I found in the wild. I have thought at times it would make my collecting of better marbles easier should I start to sell but I struggle to let go of what I have. If I could narrow my collecting to one or two companies or even just a certain type marble within a company it would make that easier, so far I can not.

I would find it interesting to hear how and why others came to that point. I think I would have remorse over selling the mass of marbles that fill my displays that I have grown used to seeing daily. Marbles are really the only thing I collect. While I have interests elsewhere.....I limit my collecting to marbles. I am not sure that would change should I start selling/trading.

@ Sami, I see the break down much the same way.

[winnie]

This topic is a "far from my bed show",however i was going through it.

I still have my Steiff collection,what is worth almost nothing,after the Steiff company decided about 15 years ago,to reproduce the toys.

It don't bother me,i still enjoy it,i know it's old and has history.

How much i love marbles,i would never spend much money for a marble,come on it's only a piece of glass.

I have no problem to spend a lot of money for a beautiful antique tin toy or even jewelry,to be honest thats because i know when i need cash,i can sell it ,get my money back and in the meantime i can enjoy it.

When i started to collect marbles i made an agreement with myself,not to sell my marbles,only than when i'm done with it.Actually i hope my grandchildren will get them and enjoy them.

Collect something and at the same time celling does not go well for me,we have a saying here,ÿou are your own competitor".

So far,i've great pleasure in collecting marbles.

[ann]

I look at contemporary marbles as a separate classification in marble collecting. To me there are 1-antique handmade marbles (that could also be sub categorized into large and small), 2- machinemades (1915-1970), 3- modern machinemades (1970- today), 4- handmade contemporary. I do not believe these subcategories pose a threat to each other in terms of value or even the existence of the category. Rare machinemades will always hold their value and the collectors will not switch to jabo just because they are cheaper and resemble the old ones. I can speak only for myself but have a feeling I might have few that will think the same way.

Sami

What Sami said. Exactly, except for the large/small categories. I don't do large (over 1 1/8). My subcats are glass and non-glass.

And what Jeeperman said. I think in 10 or so years I've sold maybe 3 marbles, all at one show, in somebody's room. As I've improved certain aspects of my collection, I've given away probably several hundred to beginning collectors. Probably should have sold them, but I'm stupid that way.

Once I retire, I'm going to roll around in my keepers, in my cardboard box under the bridge. Hopefully in or near Key West.

[sissydear]

Wow! These responses look like the chatboard of the old days. Sami, I didn't know there was any other way to group the marbles. You are spot on! I collect groups 2,3, and 4. Anything I find in group 1 goes straight to my son. I haven't sold any marbles in the last 3 years, but I may start up again this fall. Then again, I may not. I enjoy giving away the JABO's and Sammy's that I helped to make. I don't think the vintage machine mades hold their value Sami. I can remember paying $300 for a Peltier superman in the 1990's. I don't see them selling for that now. it's OK though, I'm not selling mine. My grandson will enjoy them when i'm gone.

I think I enjoy the people as much as I enjoy the marbles. I love seeing and spending time with old friends and making new ones at marble shows. I love getting kids involved in the hobby. Jeeperman, once a marble gets into my keeper boxes, it never leaves. I'm with you on that. I never got into this hobby to make money. I just love the marbles and the people. I don't care if value goes up or down. I never intended to buy and sell for a profit.

I love your post Mike.

Big John, that's what it's all about for me - fun! We don't have to get nasty to get participation. There is a new FB marble place that doesn't allow the nasty things to be said. You get thrown off if you do post it. It's thriving. It reminds me of the old days. All kinds of marbles are allowed there. We are learning from each other and teaching others the parts of the marble world we know a little about.

Bob, your post is priceless! I cannot understand how anybody could enjoy the moaning, groaning, bitching, whatever you want to call it -- over and over and over again. I'm too old to waste time doing that. I plan to enjoy marbles to the fullest for the rest of my life.

Griff, dear friend, I love your post too.

Marbles make me happy and I intend to stay that way.

[Al Oregon]

Let's try and look at this from a new collector that is thinking about collecting marbles. And, let's say they are looking to collect machine-made marbles - older ones like Peltier, Christensen and up to WV swirls. I remember when I started collecting about 15 years ago. My wife and I sat down with Landon Daniel. We knew nothing about marbles. He shows us a variety of his marbles - high end stuff. Then he shows us a few of the newer marbles, like the Mega (Vacor) Serpent, and a couple of contemporary or re-worked or cullet-made marbles that looked like the older machine mades. He explained the difference but, to my eye, they looked the same. While I decided to collect marbles, I also decided to collect lower value ones so I could learn about marbles. I collected packaging to see what companies made what marbles. Of course, I learned along the way to recognize most of the "replica" marbles. This took time and going to shows, etc. If I started collectin marbles now and sat down with a knowledgable collector who would also show me the replicas that are out there, from Vacors to Scott's to Wilganowski to some Jabos and some recent Sammy's, I would have a hard time wanting to collect marbles because of ll the one that may be 'replicas'. New collectors are probably not going to take the time to learn the fine details to tell the difference and when they get burned, they will walk away. Beside the electronic age taking away kids playing marbles (and subsequently being a collector when they get older), these 'replica' marbles, as they proliferate, will be a detriment to the continued growth of the hobby. Just my thoughts trying to look at it from a new collector viewpoint.

[sissydear]

I remember being new in 1992. Weldon and I bought bags of Vacor. They were copying Peltiers at the time. I still have those bags. They have supermen, spidermen, golden rebels, etc. We studied those bags so we wouldn't get "burned". That was our job. you don't learn it all at once. At least I didn't. I learned in small increments and I'm still learning. Time spent learning is far more valuable than time spent moaning. We did the same with Fred Wilganoski marbles. We learned the differences by looking at them and I still have those marbles in my collection. They're beautiful. Marbles make me happy.

[BobBlock]

Let's try and look at this from a new collector that is thinking about collecting marbles. And, let's say they are looking to collect machine-made marbles - older ones like Peltier, Christensen and up to WV swirls. I remember when I started collecting about 15 years ago. My wife and I sat down with Landon Daniel. We knew nothing about marbles. He shows us a variety of his marbles - high end stuff. Then he shows us a few of the newer marbles, like the Mega (Vacor) Serpent, and a couple of contemporary or re-worked or cullet-made marbles that looked like the older machine mades. He explained the difference but, to my eye, they looked the same. While I decided to collect marbles, I also decided to collect lower value ones so I could learn about marbles. I collected packaging to see what companies made what marbles. Of course, I learned along the way to recognize most of the "replica" marbles. This took time and going to shows, etc. If I started collectin marbles now and sat down with a knowledgable collector who would also show me the replicas that are out there, from Vacors to Scott's to Wilganowski to some Jabos and some recent Sammy's, I would have a hard time wanting to collect marbles because of ll the one that may be 'replicas'. New collectors are probably not going to take the time to learn the fine details to tell the difference and when they get burned, they will walk away. Beside the electronic age taking away kids playing marbles (and subsequently being a collector when they get older), these 'replica' marbles, as they proliferate, will be a detriment to the continued growth of the hobby. Just my thoughts trying to look at it from a new collector viewpoint.

Well said Al!!!

[jeeperman]

While I understand the thoughts expressed by Al and others and agree there will be some beginners that may lose interest for these reasons, I also believe there are those whom will continue on. Some, simply for the challenge. I hope so at least.

While I hate to see anyone try to copy old style to the point of confusion...... there is just to many possibilities for there to be a need for making replica marbles.

I can't help but feel we as collectors have to find a way to embrace the new marble. I am not saying to collect them if you don't like them, but lets face it.....collectors of tomorrow will not be collecting for the same reason as those of yesteryear. As stated earlier, kids play video games now and most don't know what marbles are for.

These new inexpensive marbles are all they are exposed to and if it were not for them....they may not be exposed to any at all. It is my hope that those that find an interest in these new marbles find there way to look into what started it all and those in between. Yes, some may give up, but I believe many will not and it seems it may be one of the largest places in which the hobby finds new blood. We just have to be good stewards of the hobby and rather than fight amongst ourselves...find a way to make peace with what we can not change and look to educate the new as we continue to learn ourselves. The key is to get interest in marbles.....any marbles. The rest will have to take care of itself.

I love my marbles for many reasons, one of which is the people whom it brings me in contact with. The type of people whom gather their non keepers by the jar full and spread them over a playground, just to return in the morning to watch the kids light up at first play break. Not only is this a good hearted thing to do but I can only think it might just spark an interest that pops up down the road. I believe an interest sparked by a good memory will trump difficulties in identification. For me....sometimes those difficulties drive my interest as much as anything else.

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

My marble collection has evolved over the years.

It doesnt even have that many marbles in it.

Here's some non marble things that have made it into my collection.

A nice boot knife that Bobby Newman made.

A picture of Les Jones that follows you around the room.I can hear his voice when I look at it

A couple Andy Davis Tops that he gifted me.

An autographed box from Hillbilly Magic,that still does not have marbles in it.

A small tin box with old trolling spoons in it.

A "mud man",oriental figure holding a fishing pole,with a fish on it,of course.

A small picture,marble box,with WVRONS and me,on it.

A picture of Dave M.,Bobby Newman,Ed Parsons and myself,sitting at his house,playing with marbles.

Thats just the corner of the shelf.

Now there might be 25 dollars worth of stuff on that list,but I wouldnt sell any of it.So its all worthless,and priceless at the same time.

I do make a little money,off of marbles.Hotels and gas isnt free.Came home with way less than what I left with,many times.

Everyone has to "eat",when you go to the shows.

Of course,it only takes one cheese cake,at the show,to make it all worth while,and I get to eat!

Bottom line,marble collecting has always been in a state of evolution.It will take its own path.Im just glad the Jabo and Sammy's has widened the road.

Of course,Jabo and Sammy's,are not making reproduction,so they are not relivent to the topic.